THE SEEING GOD FACE TO FACE DILEMMA
Copyright 1994 - 2008 Endtime Prophecy Org
Last Updated : July 23, 2006
Has God The Father Ever Been Seen By Mortal Men?
In a recent conversation with a Christian friend posting in
FidoNet, I was asked to clarify certain verses which at
first glance seem to contradict each other. The verses which
my friend quoted are as follows:
Ge 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel:
for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
{Peniel: that is, The face of God}
Ex 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a
man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the
camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man,
departed not out of the tabernacle.
Ex 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for
there shall no man see me, and live.
Ex 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt
see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only
begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath
declared [him].
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light
which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor
can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one
another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in
us.
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother,
he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he
hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
My friend concluded his remarks with the following comments:
"Now, in view of Ex 33:20, 23; Joh 1:18; 1Ti 6:16; 1Jo 4:12,
20, should there not be a logical answer to Ge 32:30 and Ex
33:11 that can be proven by The Scriptures themselves?"
"Time and study had precluded my research into it
previously, and when your posts were read, it brought it
back to mind again, so your assistance will be most
appreciated, if you have the time!"
----- End Of Quote -----
Well, if there is one thing I have learned over the years,
it is that none of us have all of the answers, myself
included. When we try to figure things out with our carnal
minds, we just make a mess out of them. So, as is my custom
when faced with difficult questions such as the above, I
asked the Lord to show me the answer. What often happens is
that the Holy Spirit will quicken verses to me, that is,
bring them to my remembrance, just as Jesus promised in John
14:26:
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father
will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and
bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said
unto you." (John 14:26)
As I have said before, the Bible does not contract itself.
If there is any contradiction, it is usually in our human
way of understanding things. Taking all of the above verses
as a whole, I am inclined to believe that, in the case of
Jacob at Peniel, his encounter was NOT with God the Father,
but rather with either Jesus, or some other angelic
messenger. I think Jacob was ASSUMING it was God. Notice
that the person Jacob wrestled with did not identify himself
as God. As a matter of fact, he was even hesitant to reveal
his true identity:
"And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy
name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after
my name? And he blessed him there." (Genesis 32:29)
It is right after this that Jacob makes the exclamation that
he has seen God face to face. Either there are verses
missing from my KJV Bible where this messenger actually
identifies himself as God, which I doubt, or else Jacob is
making an assumption. What is interesting here is that this
is not the only incident where a messenger from God refuses
to identify himself. One incident which I overlooked, and
which should have been included in the 'Time And Space'
article, is the story of Manoah and his wife who were the
parents of Samson the Hebrew strongman. This wonderful
account can be found in Judges chapter thirteen. This
angelic messenger first appeared to Manoah's wife in a
physical form, and then to both Manoah and his wife in a
field. He was so physical that they offered to prepare a
meal for him, which he declined. Consider what it says in
verse six of that chapter:
"Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man of
God came unto me, and his countenance was like the
countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked
him not whence he was, neither told he me his name:"
(Judges 13:6)
Later on in the chapter during the second encounter, when
Manoah inquires as to the identity of the man of God, we
read the following:
"And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy
name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee
honour? And the angel of the LORD said unto him,
Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?"
(Judges 13:17-18)
Just as with Jacob, the angelic messenger is hesitant to
reveal his true identity. In spite of this, even though they
both come to realize that he is an angel or messenger of
God, look how Manoah and his wife react to the experience:
"But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and
to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the
LORD. And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die,
because we have seen God." (Judges 13:21-22)
Did Manoah and his wife actually see God the Father? No,
they saw one of His many angelic messengers, possibly even
Jesus, yet they referred to him as God.
Here then we have at least two occasions where a messenger
of God is referred to as 'God', even though it really isn't
God the Father. All of the original verses quoted in this
article make perfect sense and perfectly agree with each
other. No human person has ever seen God the Father face to
face. So what does that imply? It implies that all of those
Old Testament appearances were Someone else. As I have
demonstrated, in some cases, it was an angelic messenger. In
other cases, my belief is that it was Jesus Himself, Who the
Old Testament refers to as Jehovah. A case in point is that
of Abraham and Moses. Jesus Himself tried to tell the Jewish
religious leaders this very truth, but they refused to
accept it due to the hardness of their own hearts. As I
explained in the 'Time And Space' article, as well as in the
'Atonement' article, there is a very close link between
Jesus and Moses. Moses made this clear, and Jesus made it
clear as well. After reading this person's comments, the
verses which immediately came to me are the following. I
should have included them in the 'Manipulation Of Time And
Space' article as they are a direct confirmation of what I
said there.:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he
shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we
know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the
prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall
never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father
Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom
makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my
honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of
whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him;
but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall
be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his
saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he
saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art
not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus
said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before
Abraham was, I am." (John 8:51-58)
Now that my dear friends is some heavy doctrine! What is
Jesus talking about here? Well, if you have read my 'Time
And Space' article, you will see that Jesus is making a
reference to the fact that Abraham did have a very physical
face-to-face encounter with the Lord (Jesus) and two of His
angelic messengers in the plain of Mamre near Hebron, (then
called Arba). It was on this occasion that the Lord told
Abraham that Sarah his wife would have a child in her old
age, their heir Isaac. It is also during this same encounter
that they dined together and Abraham pleaded with the Lord
to spare Sodom and Gomorrah where Lot lived. But you see,
the Jews were so hardened that they were trying to
understand things with their carnal minds instead of seeing
with the eyes of their spirit. Don't forget that it was just
before this incident that Jesus told them that they were of
their father the Devil. (John 8:44)
But notice the very last words that Jesus spoke: 'Before
Abraham was, I am.' If you ask me, that is a veiled
reference to Moses and the burning bush. Isn't that what
Moses was told?:
"And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the
children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your
fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me,
What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said
unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say
unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
(Exodus 3:13-14)
It is my belief, as stated in the 'Time And Space' article,
that throughout human history, the Lord has made cameo
appearances. In some cases, He materialized in a flesh and
bone body, such as in the case of Abraham, while in others
He appeared in His spiritual body. I believe this may be the
case with Moses and the burning bush. It was Jesus who
appeared to Moses, and not God the Father. This would
perfectly harmonize with all of the verses regarding no man
seeing God face to face. As can be seen, the term 'God' was
used rather loosely by those who had such experiences.
Either that, or the translators took a license of their own
when translating from the original Hebrew text. In some
places we find the phrase 'like unto the son of man.' In
others we find 'Lord God.' It is my view that these may be a
reference to Jesus, and not to God the Father, or in some
cases, to an angelic messenger. In conclusion, as pointed
out previously, it was Jesus who communed with His creations
in the Old Testament, and not the Father. Just as Jesus
represented the Father in the New Testament, so He did
likewise in the Old Testament. Consider the words of John in
one of the original verses quoted in this article:
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
(John 1:18)
This is my personal belief on the matter. Based on the
scriptural evidence, I believe it is true. We will each have
to decide for ourselves. I trust this article has been a
blessing to many.